Autistic Voices Inside ABA: The Conversation the Field Needs
In this episode, Samantha and Reux—autistic adults working in applied behavior analysis—share their personal journeys from diagnosis to professional life. They reflect on early employment challenges, the critical role of workplace support, and why autistic voices matter in the field. Their stories offer hope to families, guidance for new behavior technicians, and a powerful reminder of the independence and success autistic individuals can achieve.
Autistic Voices Inside ABA: The Conversation the Field Needs
All Autism Talk
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Listen to Reux’s previous podcast episode here
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Richie Ploech
All right, Samantha and Rue, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show.
Samantha Balthazor
Yeah, thank you.
Reux Lennon
Thank you!
Richie
I'm glad we're going to get to sit down and chat. I'm glad we're doing that now and I'm really excited to talk a little bit about your journey into the workforce and all and as your your experience as an autistic adult in the workforce. But I want to first understand a little bit about the journey into getting a diagnostic evaluation and all those things if you don't mind. So Samantha, let's start with you if that's OK.
Samantha
Well, hi everybody. My name is Samantha Balthasar, same for short. Well, when I was young, I would say that, well, first, I wasn't fully diagnosed until I was like maybe nine or 10 by my mom's professor back in college. My mom and my dad both started to notice significant behaviors that I had that nobody else did. instead of crawling, I walked. I didn't crawl at all, so.
Richie
- You skipped it.
Samantha
Yeah, I did.
Richie
So you were diagnosed at about nine or 10, is that right?
Samantha
Yeah, I would say that just by a professor friend that my mom had.
Richie
Great, and then Rue, can you tell us a little bit about your journey?
Reux
So I wasn't diagnosed until later. I was diagnosed in high school, maybe about a freshman. I had ADHD and bipolar came when I was very young and then autism came later. My parents described it as someone talking to them about a lot of the criteria and they're like, oh, that's absolutely them to a T. I realized I was at about the same time when I was a freshman, the first time I heard the word Asperger's when it was still being used. And at that time, you know, the jokes from the kids and when I first heard them say that for me and I was like, wait, that's me? I have that?
Richie
Hmm.
Reux
it my my my real growth didn't really start until probably gosh I was probably about the time I got this job so I would have been about 28 when I got this job and that's when I really started learning a lot more about what that meant what what does that really mean for me and my life and like really started working on like what kind of struggles I had and how to actually live a more productive life and a more fulfilling life and work with my disabilities.
Samantha
As for me, like, I never knew I was really different until I was like maybe in middle school because my mom wanted me to have
Richie
Rue, that's a great segue. I'm going to ask you to hold all those thoughts. Go ahead, Samantha.
Samantha
and independent life, you know, she didn't want me to rely on my disabilities when I grew up. and actually my stepdad would push me to, certain things that I wasn't used to, like ordering off of a menu. You know, that was a struggle for me when I was younger until he pushed through it. And now I am more independent and are more social. yeah.
Richie
That's great. There's a lot there and there's a lot to your journey so far. And I really want to focus our time and conversation on your work experience as adults. So you are both working in the field of applied behavior analysis. You're both behavior technicians, correct? Great. I'm curious and we're just going to kind of take turns here going back and forth between the two of you.
Samantha
Hmm.
Richie
What experience did you have before this job, before this role?
Reux
Oh, I didn't start, think I didn't have my first, like I didn't have my first job until I was about maybe about 20, 21. And a lot of my jobs were, you know, what you would expect from starting out, food service, customer service, retail. And honestly, I can't decide if knowing earlier and knowing my disability earlier would have made it better. They were pretty horrible. A lot of discrimination, lot of dehumanizing behavior.
Samantha
Mm.
Reux
and a lot of trauma that it took me a really long time to get past. I would tell, I still tell my supervisor to this day that it took me over five years with this company to not have a panic attack every time I was told a supervisor wanted to talk to me because it just was such a terrifying experience. Always worrying that that was going to be the day when my time at this job would end and thankfully it hasn't.
Richie
And supervisors would want to talk to you to get an update to see how progress is going. Talk about paid time off. You know, I mean, all those things. It's not always a punitive thing, but you just, you just held that trauma from previous experiences. Sam, you're Sam, you're shaking your head over there. What tell us how you're experiencing.
Reux
Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, because that's how it always was.
Samantha
Mm-hmm. so when I was 15, I think, my school actually had a really nice IEP, program. And one of the programs was to get us ready for the workforce. So I actually started a job in Goodwill for like an hour with some of my classmates. And then I, we practiced like setting up all the, you know, resumes and the job process and everything. Like we were role play interviews and all that. And then so that we would be ready. I mostly worked in retail. I remember having such bad anxiety sometimes because of customers and my supervisors. Like I remember one time when I was in Walmart, because I worked at Walmart, my supervisor actually made me cry a couple of times because she was very hard on me and I didn't know why. So yeah, this job has been a really great blessing for me.
Richie
That's great. I'm glad to hear that, Sam. I'm glad to. I'm sorry to hear about the first part of both of your journeys. Sam, I have a question for you. You said that your your supervisor at Wal-Mart not to pick on Wal-Mart, right? But your supervisor there made you cry a couple of times. Do you feel like you were being treated differently than your peers?
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Reux
Yes, absolutely.
Samantha
Maybe a little bit because I don't know if she knew that I was on the spectrum or not, but I think she could just sense that I was different. I don't know how to explain it because I'm really a sweet person, you know, not to take my own horn, but I feel like I've always been taken advantage of because of that. And when I didn't move fast enough, she would just say, well, now I have to stay behind and do this. So that was basically my thing.
Richie
So made you feel bad. I hear a lot of emotion in that. Yeah. Thanks for revisiting that with us. Sorry to bring up old emotions for both of you. Not, I did not mean to start out this way. so you start your career in retail and fast food, right? I started my career in fast food. and then somewhere along the way you found out about the world of ABA, right? And,
Samantha
Yeah, I did.
Richie
I'm curious, know, Rue, I want to start with you this time. I'm curious. What did it feel like to go through the application process and the interview process? And because those are stressful things, right?
Reux
Yeah, they're very, very stressful. I feel like those are stressful for most people. But I was kind of at the end of my rope, I could feel my mental, my mental health like kind of breaking. And I went looking for jobs. And I stumbled upon Wisconsin Early Autism Project. And, and I didn't really know much of what it was. And I looked a little bit into it. And was like, basically was like, so it's job where I would be working with kids that were like me and my first thought was if I can't find if I can't get if I can't be treated like a human being and be made to feel like I was worthy of space in a job like that there's not really a I can't imagine that there's a place for me And that's exactly what I told them when they interviewed me. They asked me, like they do in so many job applications, like, why do you want to work here? Why did you apply here? And I said that I remember how I know still and remember how hard it was and how much of a struggle it was as a kid and just a young person from trying to connect with my peers of the same age to being able to read a room and a lot of the skills that we need, not just for work, but just in daily life. And that was really, really hard and sometimes really traumatizing. And I wanted to be part of making that easier and less traumatic for someone else. I wanted them to have more. And even if it was, I wanted them to have someone that would give them more understanding and more compassion in those in that experience than I have.
Richie
So you wanted to give the gift that you weren't given.
Reux
Yes. Yes.
Richie
Yeah. Yeah, that's a great. That's a great. Mission for you. I so appreciate that Sam. What were your thoughts on that interview process and the application process? We'll get to the work part in a-
Samantha
Well, well, I was actually trying to find a new job anyway at that period because I did not like my old job at all. I was a housekeeper at Willow Creek. Did not like it. So the main question that I had was why you want to work here, why do you want to work with kids? And I was like, huh, that's a really good question. Because I've always loved kids. Like I'm the one of the oldest of a bunch of cousins now. And I kind of wanted to help and support them as much as I could, because I had so many great teachers back when I was a kid. Um, I actually had to have therapy when I was younger and I didn't like it. So I'm, uh, weeping was so basically, um, but yeah, I wanted to give them the chance and, and I wanted to be in the process of that. wanted to give them the support that they needed and I wanted to have the opportunity to change their lives for the better. So that's my reasoning.
Richie
Yeah, I love that. The thing I'm hearing from each of you is a strong call to support the community, a strong call to take action. an emotional draw to giving back to a community, but for maybe different reasons, right? Sam, for you, because you experienced a little bit of therapy and you wanted to be able to be that for someone and Rue for you sort of the opposite reason, right? You wanted to be able to be in a place where you were where you were appreciated, also give that appreciation that you didn't get. What an interesting, what, what interesting things that both of you have different reasons, but you ended up in the same, the same space. so how did you feel? You know, I, I imagine early on you maybe spoke to, your supervisors or your directors or whomever it may be about your diagnosis. How, how did that process go for each of you and how did you feel Sam?
Samantha
Yeah. It's funny because when I would tell people that I'm on the spectrum, I literally get the same exact response. They literally say, oh, I would never guess that. So it's really funny to me.
Richie
That's so it sounds like it was positive experience to share that with your.
Samantha
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Richie
Yeah. And Rue for you.
Reux
I can't imagine anybody looking at me talking to me and not knowing that something's there, but it was definitely a very, very positive experience. I've been pretty upfront with my supervisors and oftentimes even with my families, like especially when some of my families are struggling or having a client, a kiddo that's struggling with some of the same things I did. And I'll be like, I know exactly how that is. That was absolutely me. I'm on the spectrum as well. And it's a struggle. And I can only imagine it's a struggle for both them and for their family as a way to like connect with my, not only with my kiddos, which, well, my kiddos may never have known. I feel like most of my kiddos in some way, always knew. I had people really early on that would tell me that they're like, wow, they never do that behavior with you, but with everyone else. And people would tell me that they look at you and they see something in you that is the same as they are. They may not know what it is or why, but they see someone that is they see themselves in you. And maybe that's why they they, they show different strengths and have -
Samantha
Yeah.
Reux
a level of comfort that maybe they don't always have with other cats.
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Richie
Rue, I want to dive into something a little bit that you said and something I know that you've said in the past that you have generally been pretty open about your diagnoses and you're pretty comfortable sharing it. At least you present that way to me. Is that something you had to learn or and practice or did you just kind of say, I'm just going to, is me, I'm going to throw all of me out into the universe.
Reux
Yeah, yes. I've always been the person that says like it or get out. But I feel like it also comes with the fact that long before I knew, around the same time, alongside my autistic journey, I also had a journey of as a queer person as well. And those are often sometimes kind of go hand in hand in both experience and identity, as well as just that similar feeling of like people not accepting you for who you are, not always feeling like you have a place with people, having to push to get that same kind of like acceptance and opportunity and understanding from others. So I would say that probably played a big part in it as well. I was also raised by, I was also raised by, I was also raised by my mother. She always used to tell me don't don't don't don't tell them anything because you know what their ignorance is your strength It's it's better that they don't know what you're like what you're fully capable of and I feel like that's also probably served me pretty well to be as as bold and daring as I as I tend to be
Richie
Yeah. No, it's great. I love it. All right. I want to jump forward a little bit in time, right? You both were successful through the application process. Well, first you found this role, right? You are successful in your application and your interview process. All stressful endeavors you met with. You met with your supervisor, you know, and I'm I'm thinking about like-
Samantha
Yeah.
Richie
-the very beginning where you're learning about yourself and what you're needing and, and how you advocated for some of your accommodations. Can you tell a little bit about that? Sam, we'll start with you this time.
Samantha
gosh. Well, I didn't really need any accommodations per se. I just remember when I first started, I was a little terrified, to be honest, because this is a little child that you're taking care of, you know, and before this, never even changed a diaper. So.
Richie
wow. So you were fresh. I mean, you really hadn't spent time other than maybe family members. hadn't spent time supporting children at all before this role.
Samantha
Yeah. Yeah, yes absolutely and I was just like, I remember I was like, I am, I wonder if this is just too much for me but then like as the days went on I started to get more comfortable and plus like with the support of like my MTs and BCBAs and my directors, you know, this is like a second family to me so.
Richie
I like that. Can you tell us a little bit, Sam? What are some of the supports that you received that you found helpful?
Samantha
gosh. well, they always listen to what I have to say, whether it being for the child or if it has to do with anything like with my health or my personal life. I remember back in October when my dog passed away and all of my MTs. Thank you.
Richie
Sorry to hear that.
Samantha
Everybody at WEAP were so supportive and understanding of why I had to take that day off. They gave me lots of encouragement and lots of support.
Richie
So I'm hearing support. I'm hearing encouragement. I'm hearing that you felt valued. They were always listened to you and your feedback. Yeah, Rue. Rue, you're you're shaking your head. What do you want to expand on that?
Samantha
Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Reux
I didn't really have too much experience with like small children. For a lot of my life, was like socially, I was very, very much behind a lot of my peers. So when I was young, I tended to resonate more with like my classmates siblings instead of me, instead of my own peers, because I was so far behind socially. And yeah, same, I've gotten so much support, particularly -
Richie
interesting.
Reux
- in like my first couple years a lot of anxiety like I had I'd never been in a I'd never been in either a professional environment like a professional level environment like this or in terms of like the job as well as like the behavior and model that was set forth for me by the people that were leading me and
Samantha B.
Mm-hmm.
Reux
And Early on, I realized that I always wanted to be like an MT myself. I never ended up pursuing it for health reasons, but early on, my supervisors were two in particular that were with me for the majority of my clients for a long time were always so quick to like answer my questions and and validate like my insight of not just knowing how to perform my programming for my kids but understanding why understanding what is the purpose like what is the goal of this activity and understanding that on like a developmental
Richie
Good.
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Reux
my kids. And, and they knew that I wanted to become an empty at some point. And they were always so so supportive in like, accepting like how I want how I I saw that information, the the drive that I had to, to learn far more than was necessary for like my exact for my current role, one of which is actually my clinical director today.
Richie
That's a great shout out. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and remember back to my first days as a BT and thinking of the stressors of, gosh, for me, maybe for all of us, the stressors of supporting in a world that we've never been in, I, you know, supporting a child with autism that I don't.
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Richie
I know what I want to do, but I don't have the skills yet. I'm learning all the, it's a, it's a challenging job. It's a challenging role. Sometimes, you know, clients can have problem behaviors and things like that, that aren't necessarily our favorite. remember one of my first clients like to spit and he would spit and he would spit right in my face. And I remember leaving, like, it was one of my first days and I was like, what do I do? I'm not, just sort of a little bit of stage fright. Yeah. no.
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Reux
Like what did I get myself into with this job?
Richie
So there's that piece of it, but then there's also the piece of how do I now become an adult? And not to say that none of us were none of us were kids at the time, like we were adults, but this is this was like my first career job where I this is where I want to be for a long time. And I was, you know, I have to think about how I dress, how I present myself, how I respond to emails. You know, I don't have to worry about emails when I worked fast food because I didn't get an email. Right. So so all those things.
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Richie
That sounds like one of those sounds like a lot to manage, let alone both. and so I'm just hearing from you both the tremendous support that you had, the opportunity you had to just be vulnerable with your supervisors and directors and say, I need help.
Samantha
Mm. I think it...
Richie
What advice would you give? go ahead, go ahead Sam.
Samantha
I think it also helps that my MTs also like praise me for being, for doing a good job too. Like that keeps me going as well. Like I remember, when I just got back from my stay abroad trip and I had to sub with a child that did not like subs at all. He would cry from what I was told and he stayed calm for me. Like he stayed calm for the whole session with me and they just said, it's probably just because of your calm personality. So.
Richie
That's great. So I'm curious from each of you. I appreciate that story, Sam. That's such a great story. I'm curious from each of you, you know, going back in time to someone who's just starting out as a brand new BT. What advice would you give them? Knowing what you know now, what advice would you give them or even to yourself when you first started years ago?
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Reux
gosh, I always I the few things I always mentioned to new tax, especially if they're ones that I see might be like struggling. Some of them are always it is okay to not be a perfect fit for every kid. It's a you're not always going to be a good fit for that kid. They're not always going to be a good fit for you. And that that is okay. Like we all have our
Richie
Hmm.
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Reux
for strengths. And the other big one is, I always tell them that if all you do for your session is manage your child through a meltdown, you're still doing your job. Because I feel like a lot of techs early on don't always get told enough that it's not all about table times. It's not all about going through programs and schedules that sometimes doing your job is just helping them to manage through a massive meltdown for two hours. And that is part of the job. And if that's all you do, that's still being productive and taking away that worry that, my God, I'm gonna get in trouble. I didn't get through every single program today twice. I'm not doing my job, I'm in trouble. And giving that insight to that and taking that neurosis away, I think is always what I tell you to.
Richie
Yeah. I remember like telling that story to myself and then trying to like, great, we've got 20 minutes. We've got to fit in this little bit. And then, and then now I'm creating the problem as opposed to where, I just ended up in this cycle. Yeah. Yeah. That's good advice.
Samantha
You're up.
Reux
Yep, because then we're pushing them. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yes, that was probably one of my biggest struggles like really early on. And I really wish that, I really wish someone had put that in my head early on. And so that's one of the first things I usually tell new tax. That and that their health matters just as much as their kid does.
Samantha
Yeah.
Richie
Yeah, that's great advice.
Reux
now whether that means taking a day off, whether or not means adjusting your schedule, whether that means potentially leaving the job. that is your if you don't take care of yourself you can't help them you can't pour from a cup that's empty.
Samantha
We are in.
Richie
Yeah, yeah. Sam, what were your thoughts? If you could give advice for your son or to another tech just starting.
Samantha
Gosh like I always tell new texts, you know just take a breath take a minute and If you need to ask for help, it's okay. That's why we're here That's why the MTs are here to give you support I would always say like, just take one day at a time. You know, don't push yourself. You know, just be as fun and silly as possible. Cause it makes it so much better when you look at the positives instead of the negatives. Because every single time when I, when any of my kids accomplishes something that helps me so much because that means that I'm doing my job correctly and that they're doing things the correct way to help them in the future. Yep.
Richie
And they're growing. Yeah. I was a classroom teacher before I was a behavior technician. And I remember my first few days as a BT being terrified that I wasn't doing enough, I didn't know the answer, that I couldn't speak to the... I I went from a very education, academic focused environment to sort of the behavior tech world, which is getting you
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Richie
Getting clients ready for that. And I just remember this sort of fear, sort of to both of what you're saying, this fear to be fun and silly, this fear to not know the answer, this fear of asking for help. And man, I just wish I could go back in time and be like, you'll figure it out. It'll be messy at times. It won't look pretty all the time and it's going to have tough days, but it will get better.
Reux
I think an important part to remember also is that even in just the last like 10 years, our approach to ABA has changed a lot for the better.
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Richie
Hmm... yes. that's a really important comment and a really great segue into my next question. You know, you both are adults on the spectrum working to support individuals who are early learners on the spectrum. We've talked about it a little bit, but what are some of the benefits of having autistic adults be in the field of applied behavior analysis?
Reux
And I feel like early on, I feel like when I first started, we were sort of still on that cusp where like it wasn't where it started, but it wasn't, it was just starting to move into like, to start, we were just starting to kind of pick up the signs of what would eventually become more like person centered and individualized care and so I think that also made it really hard because it was like, we were still, we were right on the end, the tail end of breaking away from that hole. It's a mold and we have to fit them in a mold. And when you're on the spectrum and you're working in that job, you're feeling like you have to fit that mold as much as the kids do. And once we moved away from that, I think that also made it a lot, easier and a lot more healthy and productive for both them and I would say the biggest one is representation and insight. That no matter how well-intentioned neurotypical people are in our community, there's only so far that that can take one. And if you don't have direct insight from people of the community that you're serving, it's not going to be the best it can be. And it's true for every community. It's true for cultural communities, like BIPOC people, like there's only so much that supporters on the outside can do. It's the same for LGBT people. There's only so much that people on the outside can do. And it's exactly the same for disabled people and autistic people, that there's only so much that support from good and well-intentioned supporters can do. And in order to bridge that gap, you have to make sure that you have people at the table that are in that community and are directly impacted by that and are living that existence in order to make that better. And that's what having autistic people in this field are doing, whether all the way from from techs all the way up to MTs, BCBAs and directors in these companies is doing.
Richie
Ruex, well said. I didn't even write that down because I was just so focused on hearing what you say. And anyone who's watched episodes before knows that I'm always furiously writing notes, but super poignant comment. I appreciated that. Sam, what are your thoughts?
Reux
Ha
Samantha
I 100 % agree with Rue that it, you know, it's really important to have the insight of what the kids are going through because, you know, some people might not understand of what triggers they have or what can help them, you know, and I think another big benefit is that, you know, They have, the kids have somebody there that's similar to them, that understands them and supports them, like I've said before. And, you know, and I think that when families see us, you know, they have hope that their children will have success like us because, you know, they're watching us too. So, yep.
Reux
Exactly. They're seeing us thrive. They're seeing us get up in the morning and come to a job and have independent skills and seeing like if they can do it, maybe my kid can too.
Samantha
Mm-hmm. Yep. act absolutely you know they're seeing us you know being independent in a positive way you know and that's what i want to spread i want to spread that hope across the you know the world that kids with autism can lead successful independent lives when they grow up
Reux
Yes. Yes. seeing adults with autism, especially in this job where we work with our early learners, I think it helps bridge that barrier as well between the something that I feel like a lot of people have a hard time understanding and keeping in mind is that autistic children turn into autistic adults. And by seeing them together, I think that helps.
Samantha
Mm-hmm. Yeah Well, and I just like remember when I was in school one time for college for NWTC, a parent actually came up to me because we had the same class and his child is on the spectrum. And, you know, the parent had a negative effect because some bullies were picking on his son and He came up to me and was like, what can I do to help my child? And I just said, you know, just be there for him. You know, just, just listen to what he has to say. Even if they're, even if he's not verbal, you know, still listen to what he's doing so that you can be there for him.
Richie
I'm having this, you, both have given me chills. I'm having this, this, this thought, and I'll share with you what's going through my head. I'm thinking about some of the families and their experience going through the diagnostic evaluation process and how they don't have an answer and they're looking to find answers and explanations. And at the end of it, sometimes they come out with a diagnosis and then they hop on the internet and they start Googling and they dive into this rabbit hole anyway, fast forward a little bit of time and they now are, they now are, they're changing their whole lives to fit the therapy schedule and, and they're either bringing their child to services or services are coming to their home. And all of a sudden the two of you show up and it's sort of a glimpse into the future for that family. Right. They go from this fear of no, our child got a diagnosis maybe, right? That has what some people experience, to, my goodness, here come these young professionals who are adults with autism, who are thriving, who are independent, who have careers, who are managing life independently and are just crushing it. And they walk in and they're the ones supporting my newly diagnosed two or three or four year old, whatever it may be. And what a moment for that family of-
Samantha
Mm-hmm.
Richie
-of validation for one, the work that they need to do and the work that's going to happen over the next little while. But also the light sort of at the end of the tunnel of the work has meaning and there's purpose behind it. And when you fast forward a little bit, can see you both mentioned hope, like this beacon of hope of there's a possibility that your child is going to be a thriving adult. And don't rule that out in.
Samantha
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Richie
in the realm of outcomes because it's very much an option. It's very much an opportunity.
Reux
Absolutely. And it helps to rewrite it. And yeah, it's helping to exactly what you're saying. It's helping to rewrite that autism is a death sentence. And it's not, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be. It's not a guarantee. It doesn't have to be that way. Now, obviously all of us are different individuals and some of us have -
Samantha
Yes.
Reux
-different kinds of struggles and some by the way the world may not be able to be managed as well as others but the idea of seeing us in this field and seeing that that's not the only option, that's not the only outcome, that it's not the end of that child's life. is not necessarily something to grieve in the way that people have always made it seem like it is, and that there are more than one possibility that can come from that diagnosis.
Samantha
I always say that autism is not a disease. know, it's not like, you know, it's not a disease like cancer is. You know, it's just, it's just a disability that have others think and learn differently. You know, there are different solutions to help that child or the person to lead an independent life.
Richie
Sam and Ru, I want to thank you both so much for taking time out of your schedules to share your journey and share your experiences with our audience. Thank you both so much. We've so appreciated having you on and learning from you. We'll have to have you back on in the near future as you continue down your career path. We'd love to hear how things are going.
Reux
Thank you so much for having us.
Samantha
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yes.